Visitors to the Alcoholism site here at The Mining Company debated the issue of whether or not to use the Lord's Prayer to close 12-step meetings on the bulletin board for several weeks. Here are some excerpts from that debate:
Written by Aussie Chuck on Sun Jan 25
By calling this phenonemon "The Circle of Unity" (and by marrying the ritual reciting of the "Our Father" prayer to it) there is created a powerful psychological force which would prove difficult to effectively resist.If one is effectively denied the ability to resist (fight) by peer pressure or ostracism or antagonism or by name calling and labeling with heavy judgements then one only has the other psychological options of submit (freeze) or avoidance (flight). Given that many alkies find it easier to flee from problems (ie: geographicals) is it any wonder that so many leave AA to suffer and die or at best turn to alternative programs that leave out the spiritual concepts altogether.
Bill Wilson often said that the good (ie saying the "Lord's Prayer") often was the enemy of the best (saying something else, less tied to a particular religious persuasion)! Do the Christian AA's who are adamant about their particular ritual prayer want an AA that is predominantly Christian? Do they really wish to alienate and drive away those who are in the minority or who have not yet come to terms with their resentment toward institutional religion as is mentioned in the 12 and 12 at the 9th step? Have they forgotten the principle of inclusiveness as they cling to their attachment to this gimmie ("suplication") prayer?
How many other countries of the world regularly say this prayer in public at AA meetings (few if any out side of America).
It is not those who refuse to say this Christian prayer (no other religion says it) that are the ones who are not ready for a truly inclusive AA, it is those feel that words are more important than lives of suffering alcoholics that are forgetting the admonition "In your meditation ask what you can do to help the still suffering alcoholic". What can we do to help the still suffering non-theist or non-Christian alcoholic in this regard? The answer is obvious.
Good on ya mate for standing up and being counted! As usual in AA this movement of reform is proceeding slowly but is now much more noticable than when I came in over 20 yrs ago!
Aussie Chuck
Written by Mitchell51 on Sun Feb 8
You wrote: "As usual in AA this movement of reform is proceeding slowly but is now much more noticable than when I came in over 20 yrs ago!"I too have gone to thousands of meetings over the past almost 23 years. I too have noticed this "reform" happening to AA. I have been in meetings, reciting the Lord's Prayer in Israel, Mexico, Canada, The Netherlands, England, Italy, France, and several Central American Countries. I have also seen a decline in length of sobriety from when I came in to AA. Bill Wilson also talked about a 75% rate of recovery as early as 1940. In Cleveland, Ohio there was a 93% recovery rate in the early 1940's. Today, ONE out of every 100 people coming into AA will achieve 5 years. The program continues to be watered-down in order to achieve a level of comfortability for everyone walking in the doors. There is no stress on Home Groups, Sponsorship or being committed to recovery. Just make an effort and MAYBE stopping drinking will be the result.
Cessation of drinking my be the initial factor bringing people into AA - but it is not the prescription for a miracle written about in the Big Book. Dr. Bob summed it up - "TRUST GOD, CLEAN HOUSE, HELP OTHERS." Bill Wilson wrote that "AA is a sort of kindergarten we go through to a better way of life and wider usefulness."
If this "reform" continues and the basic text is altered to please alcoholics, who have been pleasing themselves their whole lives, maybe the quote relating to the stories and their purpose found on page 29 will be taken out. On page 29 it states: "Each individual, in the personal stories, describes in his own language and from his own point of view the way he established his relationship with God." Maybe Step 11 should be changed to remove the word "Prayer?" And maybe the quote, "We shouldn't be shy on this matter of prayer" should also be removed from page 85. Of course we should remove the quote from page 279, "Dr. Bob dwelt at length on how prayer had given him release, time and time again, from the nearly over-powering compulsion to take a drink."
Maybe we should remove all of the references to the Lord's Prayer found in the Big Book (pps. 270, 291 and 381). Let's not stop there on our quest to not scare away anyone coming into an AA meeting - let's remove from the Big Book the 242 times it mentions God, the 52 times it mentions pray, prayed, prayer,prayers and praying.
Maybe we should remove all Christian references in the book such as "Faith without works is dead," and especially the quote from page 216 - "...I did challenge Bill (Wilson) to tell me something about A.A. and I do recall one other thing: I wanted to know what this was that worked so many wonders, and hanging over the mantel was a picture of Gethsemane and Bill pointed to it and said, 'There it is,..." and of course the quote from page 574, "The basis of the technique of Alcoholics Anonymous is the truly Christian principle that a man cannot help himself except by helping others." While we are at it how about the quote on page 181 - "If you think you are an atheist, an agnostic, a skeptic, or have any other form of intellectual pride which keeps you from accepting what is in this book, I feel sorry for you." Dr. Bob said that and maybe we should get rid of Dr. Bob for that and other quotes and Bill for the Gethsemane quote.
Let's get rid of "thoroughly followed our path" found in Chapter 5 and replace it with, "followed whatever path you wanted." Heck, we don't even need a book. We can just have a 3X5" index card stating "Don't Drink and Go to Meetings."
I don't know about anyone else, but I drank because I was running the show. I came into AA because MY WAY DIDN'T WORK! You state AA is scaring away people because of prayers, God or whatever. THEIR WAY DIDN'T WORK - that's why they come to AA - why do you want everyone to have it their way? Only at Burger King can you have it your way - AA ain't Burger King!
Mitchell51
Part I | Part II | Part III
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