Visitors to the Alcoholism site here at The Mining Company debated the issue of whether or not to use the Lord's Prayer to close 12-step meetings on the bulletin board for several weeks. Here are some excerpts from that debate:
Written by Mitchell51 on Fri Jan 23
Thank you for your reply Aussie Chuck.I think that many people have problems with prayers of any kind. AA is not a religious program, it is a spiritual way of life.
If we were to take this affiliation thing to the extreme ( for many alcoholics are extremists) we could not meet in churches, synagogues or any other house of worship fearing affiliation or identification. We would have to take out all references to scripture (i.e.: Faith without works is dead) and change many parts of the Big Book. In the beginning there were those who demanded that ALL references to God be removed from the text. There are even those who have to this day, demanded that Higher Power be removed. There is such a program of recovery available to those who want a non-spiritual path. That movement is called Rational Recovery.
You mentioned tolerance in your reply. Is it tolerant to ask that all those who believe in any sort of faith not to be able to express that faith? Is it tolerant to state that there is only one way to either conduct a meeting, end a meeting or what to say and how to say it?
Many thousands have recovered who are not a member of any Christian denomination. There have been Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Wiccans, Athiests and Agnostics among those who have recovered. I remember when I first came into AA and heard these so-called Christian references made. I almost ran away. But I knew that I had a problem with alcohol and I needed help. I was dead emotionally, spiritually and almost physically. I HAD to stay. I looked for excuses to run; rationalization, denial and fear were my motivators.
If we remove any reference to prayer, or any other spiritual matters no matter what their source what do we do to our program of recovery? Back in the early 1940's the recovery rate ranged from 75% - 93%. Today we are lucky if 5%-10% of those entering into AA ever make 5 years. Despite the "official" membership survey, I have found that the actual figures sadly reflect this lower percentage.
I refer you to something Henrietta Seiberling once said: "In the early days, Bob and Bill said to me,'Henrietta, I don't think we should talk too much about religion or God.' I said to them, 'Well, we're not out to please the alcoholics. They have been pleasing themselves all these years. We are out to please God. And if you don't talk about what God does, and your faith, and your guidance, then you might as well be ther Rotary Club or something like that. Because God is your only source of power.' And they finally agreed."
There is only one requirement for AA membership - A DESIRE to stop drinking. It doesn't even say you have to stop, only have a desire to stop. If everyone who had a problem with what was written in the Big Book and heard at a meeting was given their wishes, there would be no AA and not one of us could have ever recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body.
Let us say that AA makes a "rule" that we cannot recite the Lord's Prayer. What next? We cannot meet in houses of worship? We cannot make reference to God? We cannot keep the text of the Big Book as it stands? We cannot talk about anything that offends anyone?
I personally would rather the emphasis be placed upon Sponsorship rather than counselors and therapists ( at meetings - there are many who need other professional services). I would rather see Home Groups and committment to recovery rather than trying to make it more palatable for everyone. If I had a sponsor who told me that I could take what I liked and leave the rest I would still be drinking or dead. If you want what we have and are willing to go to any lengths to get it...
Let me relate a story my sponsor once told me. Let's say you ate the greatest pie ever. It was made by someone who you know. You ask them for the ingredients and how to make it. They tell you and you write it down. Later you go to the supermarket and look for the ingredients. You see that fresh cherries are too expensive so you buy canned ones. You see that the type of flour they told you to get was not available so you get another brand. All of the ingredients they told you to get you replaced with the ones you wanted or could supply. You then baked the pie at 400 degrees for 45 minutes rather than at 300 degrees for one hour because you wanted the pie to be ready faster. You take the pie out of the oven and cut a slice out of it - it tastes nothing like the one you had at your friend's house - AND you wonder why.
That is like recovery. If it was exactly what you wanted would it really be the same. I know that I came into AA because what I had didn't work. I couldn't change it to fit my way of thinking and expect it to work. If we make AA to fit the alcoholic, every alcoholic who walks through the doors, would we really have AA? Pretty soon we would have meetings that say that slips are the norm rather than the exception. We would have meetings that say it is OK to do drugs or only drink light beer.
I do not want AA Light or Almost AA. I want a strong AA that does not allow the alcoholic to make the rules to fit their thinking or change everything so that no one would be scared away. The Big Book says that if the person is not interested in your way of life as a recovered person then we must go on to the next. It doesn't say that we should change what we have just to please or appease someone who is coming to us because what they have doesn't work.
Sorry for the lentgth of this but I do feel strongly about such changes due to the fear of scaring sick people off. There are meetings for Athiests and for Wiccans as well as for us ordinary folks. There cannot be a "rule" which tells us what to say, what to think, what to feel, what to read, what to see or what to pray. No one is ever forced to say the Lord's Prayer. Please do not force those of us who do want to call upon God not to be able to do so.
Mitchell51
Written by Mitchell51 on Sun Feb 1
Hi Nancy,I thank you for your response. Being sober quite a few 24's I find it difficult at times when out of anger, fear or whatever, people do their best to further water-down what has worked so well for the past almost 63 years. There are many "recovering catholics," agnostics, athiests, etc. who have found no problems with the spirituality of AA. There are others who use Good Orderly Direction or Group Of Drunks as a Higher Power. I prefer the original - GOD.
Someone once told me that AA was not Burger King and I couldn't have it my way. There are enough meetings out there to find a comfortable spot without changing everything to please everyone. I look for a group which has good, solid, long-term sobriety - which believes in the Steps and Traditions and which encourages sponsorship and committment to a Home Group. I usually find at these groups contentment and people who are happy, joyous and free. My favorite page in the Big Book is #25 - There Is A Solution! With people who want to change everything and constantly complain about what AA should be I usually find shaky sobriety and those who are in constant turmoil.
I thank you again for your response and for my recovery.
Mitchell
Part I | Part III | Part IV
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